Curse

Chocobo1 · Jun 12, 2009, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

PvE balance while consumables, (nerf RoJ pop essence of celerity and voila Feast of Corruption everyone. Of course it wont happen because Cry of Pain is still there), monster and PvE only skills and, environmental effects (including the HM mob buff) exist is a utopia.

Most people don't want balance btw - they want a harder game and especially make titles harder for those that don't have them yet.

Balanced games are quite easy vs a stupid AI.

Uh, most people do want balance actually.

funway ftw · Jun 12, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

so first they deny a problem with the XTH now they are doing backend work on it..... what has anet actually been doing since the update? was the work they put into making the update I mean "work" not "discussion" (which there seems to be more of) so exhausting that for the next month they all had to rest? because tbh thats how this all appears throw in a few easy coding fixes to make it look like you did something that may be half way useful when all they di was piss off the faithful who have been sticking with the game in the vain hope that "this month" things are going to get better. they keep moving the finish line and detsroying peoples hopes in the process. the last major build that exhausted them so badly has kept people interested for a month but it gets old fast. would have been better to make a new area than these stupid repeatable zquests. theyre system was obviously so badly flawed in the XTH that not only were a lot of people unable to actually put on theyre predictions now the bloody thing obviously doesnt know how many points to distribute. (so much for the supposed testing and retesting thats going on :/ ) When skills have been broken for months with nothing done its a big issue. what happened to the good old days when if a skill was released that was busted it was fixed within days does anet really not care that much? And the only people happy with the supposed suggested fixes in pve are the people who already have the titles that used the exploits anet has now nerfed. nice joke anet!!!!!

upier · Jun 12, 2009, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Uh, most people do want balance actually.

I would love to see players who play casters running bitch bars, while they leave the big damage to the physical heroes/hench.
The mess that we are in is because each player, regardless of his chosen class, needs to be able to obtain titles. The titles need to be obtained in a human and (more importantly) NON-human party.
Which basically leads to the fact that everybody needs to be able to do everything.
With 8 skill slots.
In a game that is build on the basic premise that everyone ISN'T able to do everything.

The Arching Healer · Jun 12, 2009, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

-Budger Blackpowder will now wait a few seconds between dispensing Powder Kegs in Explorable Areas.
-Reduced the Zaishen Coin reward for the Hero Battles Zaishen Combat quest
-Fixed a bug that allowed players to have multiple copies of the Heroes' Ascent Zaishen Combat Quest.
-Fixed a bug that caused Res Orbs to resurrect dead NPCs in Alliance Battles.

Don't like these updates at all. Doesn't Anet know that nerfing even more farms increases the number of players that quit Guild Wars? This was one of the only farms left in the game that was fun to do (while festival weekends).

Don't know which one of the Hero Battles reward they decreased. But if they decreased the rwards for the bonusses, this update will have a minimal effect, since people only farm the HB quests for faction.

Having 3 HA quests was awesome, 27k faction in 5 minutes. Too bad they nerfed it, but I kinda understand.

Why fix this after 3 years? The orb was actually only usefull to ress these NPC's, since the players will just respawn in 20 secs.

Ah well.... Also kinda fail they didnt come up with a new skill update.

Kronos Ledaloth · Jun 12, 2009, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Keg farm nerfed and RoJ still alive?

no comment.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Jun 12, 2009, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Bye bye keg farm.

I feel really sad for any of the newer players. Those poor bastards who started out a few months ago will never be able to reach max rank on some titles without grinding like a robot because the doors have been shut. And I'm not referring just to wisdom here either. Fact is, if you are thinking about going for GWAMM you will start to do some calculations on how much it will cost you. You will need to have a steady source of income to save up for some of the more expensive titles and this was where kegging came in (for me at least).

It was a little mindless fun in a game all about grind these days. But, you thought it wise to remove this from the game as well. Honestly, without the event items nobody even bothered with kegging. It was left for weekend events. It didn't make anyone incredibly rich overnight (like UWSC, FoWSC, SoOSC etc. etc.) either.

But there you go.
GG.. once again.

Minami · Jun 12, 2009, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by funway ftw

*snip* And the only people happy with the supposed suggested fixes in pve are the people who already have the titles that used the exploits anet has now nerfed. nice joke anet!!!!!

Times 10!

I enjoyed selling my unIDd golds to my friends at discount prices to help them with their Wisdom title. Loved that I could get holiday/event items for my titles without having to grind somewhere else boring for the money, to be able to buy the same amount of sweets/party points.

Keg farming is/was less profitable than raptor farming, the run to Jaga Moraine was a PITA, and the keg farming itself was so much fun!
Every time I killed the vaettirs and an event item dropped, I was like YEAH!!

No more fun in that area of the game, gg.

And to those idiots who said 20k in however many minutes, or even 80k in an hour... Are You Freaking Kidding Me... Wow I would have loved it if that was the case, rofl!!! I would've done nothing else but keg farm day in and day out!
As it stands right now, I don't even have enough money to buy myself the cheapest elite armor to put in my HoM, and I sure as hell don't feel like grinding for it (or anything else for that matter) somewhere else where's not fun for me to play (raaaptors yet again).
And I ain't buying extra accounts for zkeys, that's for sure....

Anyways, long post on keg farming, but it was an important bit of gameplay for me, since I could FINALLY make some money to get the extra 30k I needed to buy stuff I need, in such a fun way that it didn't feel like grinding.

Please ArenaNet, bring back keg farming.

Yawgmoth · Jun 12, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Way to go Anet with the kegging nerf!

Fun is NOT an argument for keeping something ridiculously degenerate in game.

Complete invulnerability, walking through walls and 1 skill instagibs would also be FUN for a while, but by no means crap like that has no place in a persistent online game.

Next step: SF, RoJ, 600.

And it's not everything - you can't and even shouldn't nerf ALL farming builds - there's something else that needs a 'nerf' - a rework I'd say - it's Loot Scaling of Gold items in HM - they shouldn't be excluded! Otherwise we get to absurd situations like Golds being significantly *more common* than purples in the solofarms,
Farming special event items is fine, but solofarmers producing 20++ golds per hour have ruined the economy more than anything else did in the whole history of GW.

Madeentje · Jun 12, 2009, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Sad they nerfed Vaettir Farm. Seems like ANet doesn't want any profitable farm to survive. People only did it on events anyway, to earn some extra bit of cash. And Minami Kaori it did earn up to 80K/hour if you did it well during events...Tons of event items dropping there.

I never farm, but I did farm every event like a madman on the Vaettirs, for some extra bit of cash for later. Now where will I have to earn my money?? Nothing left now...Nothing that's profitable, only farms left now are farms that earn like 15K/hour, which sucks...

SurrealFi · Jun 12, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

I think it's quite hilarious (hiscarious even) that most of the poeple who DO complain about Discord/RoJ/SF/CoP/whatever are the ones who've been abusing it the most. But now, obviously when they're done with the VQ:ing of all three contintents, gotten the e-blade from the uw chest after running it like 300 times as a sin, keg-farmed their wisdom titles up to max and so on, they think something like:

"lol wtfbbq, everyone is a gwamm, nerf everything so it gets harder to get and we'll still be the cool kids! I'm done, I dont care if everyone else has to do it the hard way when I got it while sleepwalking and throwing kisses at Livia at the same time. Anet c'moooooon please nerf it all!"

Stop the nerfing Anet, let us casual players enjoy the fun untill gw2 gets out, and please get some skills buffed to give us some vial options to the current meta.

Silverblad3 · Jun 12, 2009, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I am not a regular poster, have supported anet in the decisions they have had to make...increasingly however I see more and more disappointment in GW in lack of 'appropriate communication' to the community and customers in what should be 'regular/quarterly' updates.

There are problems, things do get delayed and things can take longer then anticipated and the wild updates/nerfs to things that have been around for over a year (keg bombing), lack of updates,reasonable updates and back end work on Xunlai delays demonstrates a real lack of understanding of the game, its players and as a business anets committment to 'support' the game. We know there is a live team..but is this going to happen to GW2 eventually? Less then expected levels of support, more grind, less grouping, random 'fixes' to things that have been around, no updates on the leeching problems in JQ and FA (requires no skill), irregular updates, problem in RA of less then random teams, inappropriate communication from anet etc......

Increasily over time what is 'fixed' etc just leads me to believe that things are going to be the same for Guild Wars 2. If anet wants its customers to have faith...they need to really reach out and make an effort which it seems it cannot do, I see more players losing their respect and trust in anet.

It also seems that anet does not care if the 'old/regulars' players migrate to GW2 (if and when it launches), I think they are happy to lose this crowd and look to a new generation of consumers who will be more 'appreciative'. Anet only has itself to blame of spreading the lack of trust and respect for them as leading developers.....I just hope they can clear up such business issues when GW 2 does come as I see more and more players in my guild lose respect and interest for anet and its 'decisions'.

Let's hope they can get back on track and bring back some respect.

Silver

BrettM · Jun 12, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phenixfire

Multiple discord is way too overpowered. End.
<snip>
There's nothing wrong with team play, even if it is for overpowered skills only. If this supports playing coordinated, then it's fine. Nothing wrong with the nerf itself. Purpose is just to keep one single party member from being able to keeping it up all the time.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? One player with discord is not overpowered. It is only op when used by a team and you would like this changed. Yet you do not apply the same standard to imbagons, where you see nothing wrong with op team use as long as an individual player is not op.

As for RoJ, I have no objection to fixing the scattering bug. However, I do object to this bug being fixed in isolation. If RoJ is to be fixed, it should be done as part of an overhaul of smiting, so that smiting remains a viable choice, even if it is no longer as simple as just calling for an ion cannon strike.

Minami · Jun 12, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimitjeeuuhh

Sad they nerfed Vaettir Farm. Seems like ANet doesn't want any profitable farm to survive. People only did it on events anyway, to earn some extra bit of cash. And Minami Kaori it did earn up to 80K/hour if you did it well during events...Tons of event items dropping there.

I never farm, but I did farm every event like a madman on the Vaettirs, for some extra bit of cash for later. Now where will I have to earn my money?? Nothing left now...Nothing that's profitable, only farms left now are farms that earn like 15K/hour, which sucks...

I know I did keg farming like it was supposed to be done

I guess I'm just unlucky with the drops, not even on event weekends did I make 80k an hour. I was happy if 2 event items dropped for me per clearing.

I agree with your other points however, big time.

P.S.: People who don't care about keg farming must be rolling around in gold, UWSC, FoW, any ridiculous long ago farming exploit that people who joined GW 1-2 years ago don't even know about, armbrace duping, RMT, multiple accounts for zkeys, get them from friends, or they are just PvP nuts who don't give a rats ass about gold and PvE.

P.S.2: To the dude who said "Fun is NOT an argument for keeping something ridiculously degenerate in game."
Then what is GW supposed to be about if not FUN? Keg farming is/was not "degenerate", it was a nice way of making a bit of extra money if one needed it. I tell you what... You give me 800k gold, or the equivalent in ectos, and I'll stop complaining about the keg farming nerf, and the help it gave with paying for stuff I'd have liked to buy....

upier · Jun 12, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

I think it's quite hilarious (hiscarious even) that most of the poeple who DO complain about Discord/RoJ/SF/CoP/whatever are the ones who've been abusing it the most. But now, obviously when they're done with the VQ:ing of all three contintents, gotten the e-blade from the uw chest after running it like 300 times as a sin, keg-farmed their wisdom titles up to max and so on, they think something like:

"lol wtfbbq, everyone is a gwamm, nerf everything so it gets harder to get and we'll still be the cool kids! I'm done, I dont care if everyone else has to do it the hard way when I got it while sleepwalking and throwing kisses at Livia at the same time. Anet c'moooooon please nerf it all!"

Stop the nerfing Anet, let us casual players enjoy the fun untill gw2 gets out, and please get some skills buffed to give us some vial options to the current meta.

Well one of the options would actually also be to just numerically reduce the grind.
No need for max Luxon to be at 10 mil. Make it 5 or less even.
Same with chests, golds, Lucky, EOTN titles, Zeishen, ...

There is no need to keep broken farming in the game (if farming serves as a way of reducing grind), just remove the grind and the need to keep farming in the game vanishes.

And the people that invested more time and money into it to obtain it ages ago, well - those guys had the title ages ago. You pay more for being the first.

Inra · Jun 12, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

I think it's quite hilarious (hiscarious even) that most of the poeple who DO complain about Discord/RoJ/SF/CoP/whatever are the ones who've been abusing it the most. But now, obviously when they're done with the VQ:ing of all three contintents, gotten the e-blade from the uw chest after running it like 300 times as a sin, keg-farmed their wisdom titles up to max and so on, they think something like:

"lol wtfbbq, everyone is a gwamm, nerf everything so it gets harder to get and we'll still be the cool kids! I'm done, I dont care if everyone else has to do it the hard way when I got it while sleepwalking and throwing kisses at Livia at the same time. Anet c'moooooon please nerf it all!"

So true. If something is abusing the game it should be fixed as soon as possible. Not after couple of months/years.

Toxic OnyX · Jun 12, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

/snip

I had posted a big rant about A-net but Silverblades post above is simply much better

in addition to that post I would add that A-net have shot themselves in the foot with a few comments over the past months, namely:

1) New content updates will be 3-4 times yearly and We want players to feel connected to what we are developing even though it may be months away from release, so during development we will be more open about our process and what we are working on.

Since last content release - nothing from Devs

2) We are looking at RoJ, we will change RoJ, and we also look at other skills at the moment - and when we say we cannot discuss time lines, than that is exactly what it means: we cannot discuss timelines.

The reason for this: Things change/ need a second pass/ need more QA

so then we get this about 1 skill, cannot/will not discuss timelines etc... which is the opposite of linseys message

This is a common problem with A-net, contrary messages from devs, lack of information regarding the game as a whole, rather than use the playerbase to bounce ideas off and feed information they neglect their playerbase completely.

I have played this game for around 3 years and I can honestly say in the past 12 months their community relations is by far the worst I have seen, RB rarely ever says anything and when she does it is always with the company hat firmly in place, A-net employees rarely comment on a thread unless it is to defend a spectacularly poor update/balance and if they are questioned too closely they become absent for a few weeks/months again.

Wakeup A-net your ship is sinking and your lack of action, community relations and policy of zero information is the cause!

Improvavel · Jun 12, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I would love to see players who play casters running bitch bars, while they leave the big damage to the physical heroes/hench.
The mess that we are in is because each player, regardless of his chosen class, needs to be able to obtain titles. The titles need to be obtained in a human and (more importantly) NON-human party.
Which basically leads to the fact that everybody needs to be able to do everything.
With 8 skill slots.
In a game that is build on the basic premise that everyone ISN'T able to do everything.

This is very true - the main problem of the game is lacking AI and lacking AI builds/team builds, which include ridiculous henchmen builds.

A single person at most will control half of the skills in his team - his and those from his heroes. And still, in that situation you are limited by what the heroes are effective at using and limited by what henchmen can use. Using 2 accounts mean giving up the 8th party member and it is limited to areas that don't include multiple levels or travelling between areas.

Playing with people is great, but when you log for 30-40 minutes you don't want to spend that time asking other people to join, determining which builds/professions everyone can run, wait 2 minutes for "random joe" and 4 minutes for "random joe 2" and when you finally have all set the time is either up or you simply won't have time to do it.

This will happen even in decent guilds/alliances.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Jun 12, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Thinking about this some more... it may be that they nerfed kegging specifically because people were getting easy Legendary Survivor with it... and not because of the weekend events being farmed.

But, if that's the case, why has nothing been done to Dwarven Boxing? Sure, it takes a 'bit' longer, but it's still a million times faster than getting it the hard way...

Anyway, no use in crying about the kegman here, so back to raptors with SF & W/N then...

EDIT: Oh wait, for what possible reason would I run my warrior through to Rata? The build or maybe the raptors themselves WILL be nerfed next week/month.

Lishy · Jun 12, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealFi

I think it's quite hilarious (hiscarious even) that most of the poeple who DO complain about Discord/RoJ/SF/CoP/whatever are the ones who've been abusing it the most. But now, obviously when they're done with the VQ:ing of all three contintents, gotten the e-blade from the uw chest after running it like 300 times as a sin, keg-farmed their wisdom titles up to max and so on, they think something like:

"lol wtfbbq, everyone is a gwamm, nerf everything so it gets harder to get and we'll still be the cool kids! I'm done, I dont care if everyone else has to do it the hard way when I got it while sleepwalking and throwing kisses at Livia at the same time. Anet c'moooooon please nerf it all!"

I kind of agree with this post.
While I don't think something like keg farm is right to be kept in the game because of its natural nature, it'd be dumb to nerf CoP and 600 smiters.
And if SF is nerfed, Obsidian flesh will simply re-take its place as invincimode anyways.
Fixing things too much really ruins the point of some games.
Guild wars is about finding skill and team synergy. But whenever we do try to come up with effective stratgies, it's nerfed.

Improvavel · Jun 12, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Didn't you just contradict yourself? One player with discord is not overpowered. It is only op when used by a team and you would like this changed. Yet you do not apply the same standard to imbagons, where you see nothing wrong with op team use as long as an individual player is not op.

Discord is so powerful so powerful, noone uses it outside H/H or 2p+6h.

"Save yourselves!" is similar.

It is a powerful skill, very powerful, but opposed to shadow form and CoP, it doesn't allow you to do anything you couldn't do before!

SY! allows a regular team to be somewhat faster, not by much, but PS+SoA, clever aggro/body blocking, use of weakness, aegis, wards and the likes, will allow you to accomplish the same thing, albeit somewhat slower.

So you ask "If a regular team can do it, then why care if it is nerfed?".

That question has a simple answer - Heroes and Henchmen aren't a regular team. They suck. Clever and hero/henchie doesn't fit in the same sentence.

The downside of it is that it allows worse players to do things they couldn't do otherwise.

Of course farming, shadow form and CoP will allow them to do those things more efficiently.

So between making the game harder for those using H/H to not allow worse players achieving stuff, that they can achieve anyway, or letting players use H/H to achieve their objectives, the choice is obvious.

Except for those that think "PvE is SRIOS BZNSS!!!!!".

Additionally, the purposed SY! change will only encourage more grind. I though grind was seen as bad.